Intro • Day 1 • Day 2 • Day 3 • Day 4 • Day 5 • [Day 6] • Day 7 • Final Thoughts • Day 15
Day 6:
After yesterday’s feed. the starters both began to expand (up to the purple line) Wally had a pretty good rise this time, too; he seems to be catching up quite well. We may be just one or two feeds away from finishing the project. PJ is clearly well under way.
Both starters were pretty much done expanding within three or four hours before they started to collapse. This means they went for the remaining 20 or so hours “unfed”. They had, in effect, chomped through whatever food they were going to in rather short order. You can even see in the photo a very slight layer of liquid on top of the starter. This is “hootch” and it’s a normal byproduct of our friend the Lactobacillus sanfranciscensis when a starter is ‘hungry’. The solution? Feed it.
Since the amount of fresh food the starter has been getting is at a ratio of 2:1:1, we know that this is a rather slim buffet. Once again, let’s look at the weight to see what that means.
1/4 cup of 100% hydration starter is usually going to be approximately 60 grams. We were adding 28g of water and 28g of flour. For ease of calculation, let’s call those 30g. So in effect, for each 2 grams of “old” starter, we were adding 1 gram water and 1 gram flour. Ergo, our ratio here is 2:1:1.
I decided to make a decision of the executive variety: This feed, we’re changing the ratio to 1:1:1, so for each gram of old starter, I’ll add 1 g of water and 1g of flour (or, to match the previous ratio, 2:2:2). This in effect doubles the amount of food the beasties will have to consume and populate.
So here’s our new starter ratio. These two are done with a formula of 30g starter, 30g water and 30g flour, 1:1:1. We now have 90g total starter where previously we had 120g (60+30+30g); this is why the amount in the jar is reduced.
I’ll try to get photos of the expansion in the next few hours. I expect Wally may give us a good rise this time around.
PJ has gone well past doubled, even Wally is nearly doubled. Way to go, boys! I’ll continue to keep an eye on them today. Wally, although showing decent activity still needs a few feed to “rinse out” any remaining stink from his early battle with nasty critters. He is smelling much better but it’s not quite there yet. The increased feed ratio will help a lot in that department.
Here we are, six hours after the feed and Wally’s gone and more than doubled, he’s just peaked and showing signs of receding now. Meanwhile, PJ’s nearly tripled but is out of fresh food. Looks like I’ll need to feed them again – and I do. These are hungry boys! This is actually quite good; while PJ seems to simply be repeating, it gives Wally a chance to catch up and clear out his stink (still there, but much lighter).
Here we are 3 hours after the second feed and we have doubled both starters. I think we can officially call Wally “under way” although we now have to take time working the last of the stink out of him. That alone is a good reason to head directly for the pineapple juice method, even if we have a “viable” starter at the 6 day mark with just water, it will take us several more feeds before he’s clear of that odour, while we totally skipped over that ordeal with PJ. And PJ’s been going well for a couple of days already, so it sped up the yeast activation stage as well.
I’ll put a mark on where they’re at now and check again in a couple of hours, see if they increase a bit more or if they’ve peaked already. If they look like they’re receding, I’ll give them another feed since they’re at the most active and looking for more food, then leave them for the night. Tomorrow is day seven and it’s certainly looking like they’ll be set for the next stage, maturing.
Intro • Day 1 • Day 2 • Day 3 • Day 4 • Day 5 • [Day 6] • Day 7 • Final Thoughts • Day 15
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Question on these extra feedings that you are giving, do you dump out a portion of the starter and then add more flour and water to keep the percentages the same?
I’m on Day 4 of following the pineapple method as listed here and on Day 5 of my second try on Dan Leader sourdough method. The pineapple method on Day 4 seems to be way ahead of the Dan Leader batch. It looks like I will end up taking the pineapple batch and then slowly change the hydration to match the Leader sourdough so I can easily work on his breads.
Thanks for providing this detailed post.
g
Hi Gino,
Yes, since we switched off the pineapple juice on day 3, we’ve been removing some starter before feeding. If you didn’t trim it back you’d be feeding gallons of starter with bags of flour in no time. Seriously, we’re talking in a couple of days, you’d need to find a swimming pool for your starter if you didn’t toss some out. So cut your amount back and start each feed with a reasonable quantity of “old” starter.
And just as an aside, you do NOT need to keep a lot. If you keep just 15g of old starter and add 15g of water and 15g of flour, you’ll hold on to 45g of starter. That’s just under a quarter of a cup. And it’s plenty. Keeping a larger starter has no advantages, EXCEPT if you expect to bake a lot, like two or three times a week, and would use that amount of excess regularly.
When you starter has been going well for a while (I’d say give it two weeks at least) and it’s feeding time again, you’ll have 30g of “excess” starter that you can use in your bread recipe or collect for a couple days to put into pancakes or other “discard use” recipes. If your sourdough bread recipe needs a lot more than 30g, then just feed that up until it reaches whatever you need.
At this time in the growing cycle, however, there’s no sense keeping that “starter” because it really isn’t starter yet. So toss it. And if you’re keeping the starter on the 15g:15g:15g schedule, you’ll be tossing just 15g – or about a tablespoon – of flour, not a quantity worth worrying about.
As for changing the hydration, you can do that at any time, just feed 1:2:5 [S:W:F] (for example) and presto, you have a stiff starter. Well, anytime once your starter is good and active, I’d suggest keeping it going at 1:1:1 or 1:2:2 for a while since this lets you monitor the starter’s activity a lot better. At 1:2:2, I’d say 10g:20g:20g for a 50g total is still plenty.
Paul
Thanks for the info. I followed your advice and the starter has turned out perfectly. I also realized that to make the Dan Leader starter work I had to also start reducing it on a daily basis in order to make sure it had enough food to grow. As soon as I reduced the amount of starter and started to feed it properly it also took off. I made Dan Leaders French Country Boule, Quintessential French Sourdough and Auvergne Crown since last Saturday. All have turned out great. I ended up turning one of the sourdoughs into a firm starter. Very easy process. I had the starter in the fridge since Sunday and pulled them out yesterday to feed, just to see what would happen. Both starters took off and were ready to go when I checked in on them after 8 hours. Decided to make Leaders Light rye last night to use up the extra firm starter I had. I put the high hydration one back in the fridge and will refresh tomorrow night or Sat for this weekends bake. The Light Rye loaf rose just as the book said it would and it even grew while retarding in the fridge overnight. I’ll bake it off tonight when I get home from work. It looks like my starters are alive and well and ready for baking. Thanks for providing the info, I would have still been struggling along if I hadn’t stumbled upon your site.
By the way, you have some great bread shots on your blog.
g
OK – Mina (starter) is a warm blooded starter! She needs warmth to be happy. LOL
I originally put an 8 oz glass with hot water (from the hot water heater – need to measure the temp to see exactly how hot the water gets) in the microwave with Mina and got a small rise. 8 oz of hot water does not last very long so I moved up to a 4 cup measuring cup. I have an 8 cup measuring cup but was afraid of creating too much heat.
Mina has almost doubled in 7 hours. She is a happy girl! I just need to keep her warm.
Paul: Thank you for the words of wisdom on temps. I was a little slow to take your advise but Mina appreciates the fact that I did find a way to warm her up.
Deka
I knew I’d find my answer here. I’ve been trying to grow my own starter (I have one but wanted to see if I can do it from scratch, using the Tartine Bread method, and with the knowledge that I should be a bit more patient if not using pineapple juice). Ever since day 3 I’ve had liquid on top but no rise. I didn’t realize I should just be feeding more often (it’s been once a day for about a week)! My old starter gets the “hooch” but I wasn’t sure a new starter should that has been fed daily. I’m at work now so my friends will have to wait until I get home, but hopefully they’ll be happier from now on!
I am not clear on how often to feed it each day at this point?
If you aren’t doing twice a day feeds yet, this would be a good time to start that if your starter is showing good signs of activity. “Morning” and “early evening” are close enough time periods. I did it at breakfast and at dinner, whenever those actually happened to be that day.
If it goes too long on just one feed and runs out of food, you’ll start seeing “hootch”. This is a good sign it needs more feeds.
Hi! I just wanted to say thank you for such a detailed look at how this method is done. I’m on day 6 of my OJ starter, and this morning I switched to the 1:1:1 ratio. Here I am almost 12 hours later and I’ve got a nice rise but it hasn’t doubled like yours did. Should I feed it at the 12 hour mark or just wait for it to peak again? Should I switch back to 1:2:2 at the next feeding? This is my 2nd starter in the past two weeks and I really want it to work, so the fact that it’s not acting predictable like it was just puts this nube on edge. Thanks!
Hi Rachel,
The golden rule of bread making: watch the dough, not the clock. SO yes, you should wait until the starter is nearly peaked. Why? Because we don’t exactly know what conditions the yeasties are in right now and it could simply be that the room is a degree or two cooler than they’d like to really get pumping.
“Back to 1:2:2″? Were you seeing better results originally when you were doing a 1:2:2 feed? Was there a specific reason to switch away from that (getting poor expansion, for example)? Without a bit more detail, it’s difficult to diagnose or give pertinent advice.
Lastly, get off the edge, that doesn’t actually help anything and just makes you stressed and the process un-fun. If your starter is expanding, even if not “humongously”, but on a consistant basis, then it’s just a matter of a bit more time AND PATIENCE. This last being the super secret ingredient to making good bread. Good bread is “Slow Food” and patience is necessary. Stressing is not.
So relax, enjoy the process and let your new pal do what he/she needs to do and you’ll get excellent bread from it/him/her in no time. Well, a couple of weeks down the line, anyway.
Got more questions? Ask away!
Oops! I meant the original 2:1:1. I’m glad to hear that any expansion is a good sign. Oddly enough, not long after I posted the question I noticed him starting to recede so I think I’ll stick to the same feeding. We have gotten a bit of a cold front these past couple days in Georgia, and I think his water might have been a bit chilly this morning, so those might be factors too. Anyways, I’ll take my chill pill and enjoy the ride. Thank you for the prompt response! Have a good one!
“I meant the original 2:1:1″
Ah, that makes more sense. And no, it would be best to stay on the now bigger feeding and even head to 1:2:2 in a few more days.
If you can. try to find a warmer, cozy spot for him so that he gets a little help to attain full expansion. You can also use lukewarm water when feeding to help things along a bit. That should get you a nice bit of activity.
Sounds like everything is doing well, so just keep on doing what you’re doing and you’ll have a great little starter soon enough.
Keep feeding two or three times a day for at least two more weeks (better still, three) before he starts living in the fridge. This will give him a good shot at strengthening up and developing a little personal character.
And congratulations on being a new Starter Mom!
Thanks for the congrats! I feel like I have a ways to go, though. So I went ahead and switched to the 1:2:2 ratio yesterday morning and it took 24 hours to peak, which I was convinced it probably wasn’t going to given that it barely rose a centimeter or two, but I can definitely tell that it’s on its way back down now. I still see lots of bubbles, though not as frothy looking as on 1:1:1, and there’s a pleasant sour and yeasty smell. I’m still confident that Nigel will get going and become a viable starter at some point. But the sluggishness is kinda killing me. It’s also confusing because before I switched to white bread flour, he was doubling and tripling on himself with the rye. Should I give him a shot of rye? And also, how do you really know when your starter is ready to bake with? Again thank you for taking my questions, I feel much more confident having someone with experience I can go to.
Hey! Just wanted to let you know that I baked my first THREE loaves of sourdough just a couple nights ago. It was a wild ride but worth it all along, with a lot of thanks to you
. So happy to be a starter mom, yay!!